ARC's 1st Law: As a "progressive" online discussion grows longer, the probability of a nefarious reference to Karl Rove approaches one

Saturday, August 19, 2006

Firedoglake: We Fear Debate!

I visited one of my favorite Moonbat-Lefty-Nutjob blogs this morning, FireDogLake... Christy Hardin Smith and Jane Hamsher have made quite a name for themselves, covering all things Lamont- and Plame-related for the past 6 months.

They have additional team bloggers that have joined their effort (or who guest blog from time to time) and I had a lot of laughs about this post from TRex, in which he (or she?) excoriates "reich wingers" and the "Rightards" for:

  1. being racist
  2. being stupid
  3. pointing out that Hamsher's use of photoshop to put Lieberman into blackface isn't acceptable for political discourse. (As Malkin points out, it seems to be a common tactic used by the Moonbats).
Anyway, I commented several times on FDL, pointing out the flawed logic of TRex's post, specifically with regard to education levels and voter preferences. I did not use inflammatory remarks, nor did I use an uncivilized tone.

StupidCountry could attest to the fact that I do not stoop to such tactics. (By the way, SC... why don't you have a reciprocal link back to ARC? Just asking....) I will admit my Majikthese post the other day certainly was over the top - hey, I'm human! However, I try to engage fellow bloggers in an honest debate and always refrain from resorting to name calling and ad hominem attacks.

Well, as I began posting my comments, I kept noticing that they were being deleted.... sometimes, if they made the comments page, someone would respond to them (quoting them) and then the quoted comment would disappear, surely leaving the readers of FDL confused as to where the other part of the conversation was...

Here is the text of my comments... I've also loaded the screenshots of the comments with the text for those that would like to see them in the original formatting.

Here is actually my second comment, after I noticed that my first comment never made the thread (I repost the info from my first comment after I posted this one)
St Wendeler says
August 19th, 2006 at 7:14 am

Can I get a comment in here? not like I'm being a jerk, calling people racists, stupid, or telling them to f-off...

Just saying... I could understand banning my comments if I was saying inflammatory remakrs. Unless you think that well thought out arguments are inflammatory.

And if you don't think my arguments are well supported, you should allow them so that the others here can see how idiotic I am. I suspect, however, that they're not being allowed because you fear them....

How curious

Next comes a repost of my original comment, which questioned the validity of TRex's assertion that "the more educated people become, the more liberal they are."
Thanks for letting me comment!

From my previous comments:

TRex - You've got a pretty simplistic view of the world... very black & white, good & evil - something that the Left often ascribes to the "reich wingers" in the US as evidence of their "stupidity." Thinking that those of us on the "right" are evil and against "liberty" is just childish and, in your mind, gives you license and justification to almost any action or position that you might take, however ridiculous.

WRT "smartness" of the left vs. right, you are correct. As one attains higher levels of education, they tend to become more liberal. However, this is a (again) an oversimplification and a generalization. When you look at the voting patterns by education level, here is essentially what is discovered (check w/ Stan Greenberg for the actual #s from the 2000 election):
  • no h.s. diploma - overwhelmingly Dem (something like 75 - 80%!!!)
  • h.s. diploma - majority Dem, down to approx 60%
  • some college - even, 50/50 Dem/GOP
  • undergraduate degree - majority GOP (60-70%)
  • masters - even
  • phd's - majority dem (80%)

my "analysis" of this is the following:
  1. Those without or with only a h.s. diploma are in all likelihood economically disaffected and have a poor understanding of economics, do not have a huge burden wrt taxes, etc.
  2. those with undergrad - prefer the GOP as they pay a lion's share of the taxes, have families that they're trying to provide for, recognize the hard work that they've endured to get where they are, etc.
  3. those w/ masters - even in all likelihood b/c those with MBAs offset those with masters in linguistics, philosophy, sociology, etc. ;-)
  4. those w/ PHDs - have spent almost their entire adult life in academia (Ivory Tower that it is), are not subject to economic realities (such as being fired) like the rest of us and the professors in the business colleges are in the minority on college campuses.
just my two cents....

But hey, keep up the finger pointing as you will... but I would recommend that you might want to consider using a different finger. [reference to the fact that he posted an image of Johnny Cash flipping the bird.]

St Wendeler from Another Rovian Conspiracy

This comment was quickly seized upon before it could be deleted and my next comment includes the criticism it received from Nate, another commenter:
St Wendeler Says:
August 19th, 2006 at 8:45 am

Nate @224
St Wanker @224: no h.s. diploma - overwhelmingly Dem (something like 75 - 80%!!!)

my "analysis" of this is the following:
Those without or with only a h.s. diploma are in all likelihood economically disaffected and have a poor understanding of economics, do not have a huge burden wrt taxes, etc.

Putting aside the fact that you are wrong about these figures being from the 2000 election... They were from the 2000 Census and just like the census, they include all people living inside the US whether legally or illegally, English-speaking or not, immigrant or not provide lousy picture of "US Voters"...

Your assertion above is naive to put it kindly and flat out ridiculous to put it more aptly

When your "No H.S. Ed" number is further broken down by race (this posts subject) it paints a very telling picture!

White people with no High Schoold diploma clock in at a whopping 81% Republican. (Some might call these folks "rednecks") The other 19% probably didn't understand the question.

Black people with no High School diploma see an endless stream of Old, Fat, White Men parading across the screen on the WNN or (White News Networks) who couldn't give two shits about their problems. (See Katrina) And who probably cross the street to cover their wallets when said black folk are coming towards them (unless they're wearing white gloves of course) clock in at a whopping 91% Democratic affiliation.

I don't remember the hispanic number but it leans strongly Democratic as well.

Hence why your assertion is so stupid. The only reason so many "uneducated", non-white, non-high-school grads lean Democratic is because its really hard to like Republicans when you're living on $5.25 an hour (Or Less!) AKA Minimum Wage


Nate... I appreciate your commenting on my now non-existent comment. I just love how fascist and intolerant of dissent FDL is. New motto for FireDogLake:

FireDogLake - We Fear Debate!

It's interesting that you are compelled to break down the non-h.s. diploma and h.s. diploma numbers by race. Regardless of the racial makeup (with which I am not concerned), the overwhelming majority of those without or only with a h.s. diploma favor the Dems. Are you saying that this cohort is primarily made up of African-Americans?

Not sure whether this data came from the census or what... It was presented by Stanly Greenberg (right wing pollster that he is) shortly after the 2000 election loss to expand on the reasons that Gore lost and correcitve actions for the Dem party, one of which was to woo voters with an undergrad degree. I assume that his data came from exit polls, but I'll have to pull up his research and validate.

And hey, thanks for calling me a putz. How tolerant of you!

St Wendeler
Another Rovian Conspiracy

After this comment (which the moderators at FDL saw as threatening apparently), comments were frozen and this message appeared:
Note: Due to an infestation of trolls, comments on this post have been closed.

Now, it's pretty sad that FDL considers a lone commenter questioning the assertions in their post to be an "infestation of trolls." As you can see here, my comments were much more respectful than anything in the original post or the comments that responded to me.

and with regard to the original post, I find it totally ironic that this occured in response to a post which had the following text:
I know what it’s like to walk out the door every morning knowing that the world is against you. I know what it means to have people make assumptions about your character based on nothing but their own ignorant suppositions. I know what it’s like to stand in a room full of strangers and feel their hate and suspicion beating down hard on my neck.

I am not a racist. I could never be a racist. Because I, unlike all conservatives, know what it’s like to look at another person who is radically different from myself and think, "Except for an accident of birth, that could be me."

The only way you could be a right-winger is to think that somehow, God has made you and your kind better than everybody else. You have to so believe in your entitlement that you think your privilege is some kind of God-given right. You can’t accept or comprehend the notion that on the inside you are no different than that black man, that Palestinian woman, this homeless family, or that billionaire. No better. No worse.

Does TRex or Nate not recognize how idiotic they sound? Stating that they are so open to people who are "radically different" and aren't able to hate and be suspicious of them while at the same time doing just that to me?? Even going so far as to change my name to "St Wanker?" And I didn't even go after Nate's inability to write a coherent sentence with a verb... was like shooting fish in a barrel.

Here is a screenshot of a comment which addressed this very issue.

As regular readers of this blog know, I've been banned from BitchPHD (she's great!), DailyKos, and DemocraticUnderground. OliverWillis would not allow my comments on his site for quite a while, but in recent months has appeared to become more open. Keep in mind that my being banned was always due to the fact that I disagreed with the Left, not that I was mean, rude, or used inappropriate language. (God knows that the Lefty blogosphere doesn't care about how you say something, just that you agree with them.)

I guess my point is that I just don't get the insularity that the Left side of the blogosphere seeks for itself. I mean, if you go back and read the original FDL post from TRex and then look through the comments, without my input it's just a bunch of backslapping and self-congratulation. Which is nice and all, but it certainly doesn't qualify you as being part of the "reality-based community" - unless of course your reality is composed of people who only live in liberal enclaves on the coast, listent to Air America Radio, and get their news from DailyKos, Democratic Underground, and FDL.

Which is fine, and all... but don't be surprised when your "reality" is turned upside-down by people who can actually counter your idiotic remarks. I'm going to Trackback this post to FDL - and will count how many minutes it takes before it's removed. Unfortunately, since the comments/trackbacks on the original TRex post have been closed, I'll have to select some other FDL post... confusing their readers even more.

*** UPDATE ***
30 minutes and the trackback was removed. How "progressive" of them.

Your Co-Conspirator,
ARC: St Wendeler