ARC's 1st Law: As a "progressive" online discussion grows longer, the probability of a nefarious reference to Karl Rove approaches one

Monday, December 12, 2005

Moonbat, Meet Moonbat - Mary Mapes Interviewed by the "Reality Based Community"

DailyKos contributor Hunter hitches his star to Mary Mapes and hilarity ensues! His interview is just wonderful... A moonbat match made in heaven!

Just a few excerpts from Mary before we get into the comments by the Reality Based Community:

The criticisms of the documents' physical characteristics -- that typewriters couldn't do that stuff in 1972 -- have turned out to be pure bunk. The bloggers' claims that the typing features showed the documents were forged were themselves a fraud. They succeeded, however, in hijacking the discussion about the story and even pulling the wool over the eyes of a lot of critics of George Bush and his Guard record. NO mainstream reporter (or blogger for that matter) has followed up on the fraudulent but very effective charges that radical right bloggers made and that other media repeated.
[...]
The new documents now on my web site seem to have had little impact on the "freepers" or the Powerline followers. But then reality has no impact on these people. They just didn't like the content of the story and they would have used anything to try to knock it down.
[...]
Luckily for them, they hit on the issue of fonts and thirty year old typewriter capabilities, something so mind-numbingly dull that no one cared to devote the time to seeing whether the critics' charges were true or not.
Apparently so dull that even you didn't bother to look into them when Marcel Matley, your "document" expert called them into question...
irst of all, I have nothing against political blogs. I read them and enjoy them and think they provide a wonderful adjunct to news coverage. That said, I think what happened to CBS and Dan Rather and me was something else. It was an attack, a swarming, character assassination carried out by people who cared about nothing beyond their political agenda. I don't care what someone's politics are, liberal or conservative, this kind of behavior is disgusting.

CBS was way over its head in trying to battle the conservative blogs. We all were. I remember sitting in my office, watching faxes, many of them angry and obscene, pour off the machine outside the door.

Who in the @#$ sends in a FAX!?!?! When did this controversy erupt, 1984???

It gets more delusional, but it's more interesting to read the moonbattery that follows. One commenter tries to point out to the "reality based community" that the docs were forged. The comment thread starts here. He's quickly slammed, since he doesn't fit the narrative:
No, the documents are fake (4.00 / 3)

Virtually every expert from the Typography manager at Adobe on agree. No one has been able to collect the reward for creating a duplicate document on 1970's area typography.

by william shipley on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 02:13:55 PM PDT


So the documents are a (3.50 / 2)

a replication (and a bad one at that), not a duplication. The information is authentic. See what I am getting at?

It is difficult to navigate, but the story needs to be hammered on again

by roboton on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 02:30:32 PM PDT


Um (none / 1)

did you bother to read the interview or go to her website to see similar documents with said typing characteristics obtained DIRECTLY FROM TANG?

The answer is: NO

by talex on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 02:31:13 PM PDT



The answere is YES (3.40 / 5)

And I watched her CSPAN interview as well. The problem with the 'characteristics' is that they are simpifications. For example people said that there were no proportional typewriters. Of course there were, I had one. They have said there were no th keys, once again I had a typewriter I got for high-school graduation in 1970 that had two replacable keys that could be anything.

If you look at the other period documents posted, while they may have some of these characteristics, they look nothing like the proported documents. Many period documents have been found that have the 'th'. None of them look like the 'th' in the Mapes documents -- but Microsoft word does a fine job of matching them. There is a significant difference between the coarse proportional spacing available on typewriters with mechanical escapement as opposed to modern computer printers.

I can understand why she is desparately clinging to the validity of the documents, but why is anyone else?

I should say that I believe there is some truth to the underlying story, but I really don't care. George Bush did give more service to his country than I did, or Dick Cheny or Bill Clinton. And John Kerry gave even more.

by william shipley on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 02:54:23 PM PDT



OK (2.50 / 2)

Then Mapes says the other documents she found at TANG proves that the CBS documents were real and you say they are not. She has evidence and you have an opinion. I guess you better take it up with her.

As for Bush serving more that you did - what does that have to do with his lying about the facts regarding his privileged and sporadic AWOL service and early discharge? Nothing.

by talex on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 03:11:40 PM PDT


Ms Mapes says she's not a typeography expert (3.75 / 4)

I have over a decade of experience in typesetting software design. I arguably am a typography expert. I would love to take it up with her, but her strongest support for the documents is that they are consistant with the other information known.

But since the other information known is in the public domain, and well-known, it's not hard at all to imagine someone creating a document using the data that was, after all, on a variety of web sites.

by william shipley on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 03:22:51 PM PDT


First Off (2.00 / 3)

you are a obviously a lonely voice here - and a self-proclaimed expert.

Now in your second paragraph you expose yourself as an 'Imaginer'. You make the leap from self-proclaimed expert to "it's not hard at all to imagine".

Sorry, based on that I'll stick with my original conviction that Mapes is right and you are an imaginer.

Nice talking. Try Redstate.com or Free Republic - they'd probably love to here what you have to say there.

by talex on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 04:10:26 PM PDT

It keeps going and William Shipley provides additional evidence that the Reality Based Community isn't really interested in reality. Shipley goes on to note that no one has yet to claim the $50,000 reward for producing replicas of the documents using technology from 1972.

I love it when the facts hit the Kossacks between the eyes....

Your Co-Conspirator,
ARC: St Wendeler

Comments (1)
Brian said...

Who sits around next to the FAX machine? Why someone who would think you can authenticate a document that is a photocopy!